The Future of Cities with Penny Abeywardena
Host Don MacPherson is joined by New York City Commissioner for International Affairs, Penny Abeywardena. They explore the future of cities including the impact of COVID-19, combating inequality, and addressing climate change. They also discuss the idea of broadband as a utility and the great steps taken to educate schoolchildren from home.
Penny Abeywardena is New York City’s Commissioner for International Affairs. She also serves on the Board of Directors of the United Nations Development Corporation, the International Advisory Council of the International Peace Institute (IPI), the World Economic Forum’s Global Future Council on Cities and Urbanization, and is a Core member of the UN’s SDG Strategy and Action Hub.
Don MacPherson: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Don MacPherson, your host of 12 Geniuses. I have the incredible job of interviewing geniuses from around the world about the trends shaping the way we live and work. Today we explore the future of cities. 2020 was brutal on many cities around the U.S. People fled urban settings and their office towers. There was social unrest and crime like we haven't seen in years.
Perhaps no city was hit harder than New York. To help us understand how cities can rebound, New York City Commissioner, Penny Abeywardena joins 12 Geniuses. We talk about what cities need to do to bring back people to work, solutions for addressing urban inequality, and the role cities play in combating climate change.
This episode of 12 Geniuses is brought to you by the think2perform Research Institute. An organization committed to advancing moral, purposeful, and emotionally intelligent leadership.
Penny, welcome to 12 Geniuses.
Penny Abeywardena: [00:01:03] Thank you for having me.
Don MacPherson: [00:01:05] Can you tell us what your title is and describe what you do for the city of New York?
Penny Abeywardena: [00:01:10] Absolutely. I have the pleasure of being a New York City's Commissioner for International Affairs. Most people don't know this, but New York City has the largest diplomatic corps in the world. We are host to not only to the United Nations, to 193 permanent missions, and of course, UN affiliates like UNICEF, but we also have 116 consulates which are important other arms of foreign governments based here in New York City. And then about 75 international trade commissions as well. So we have a very robust diplomatic corps and as host city, my agency is sort of critical in ensuring that they are able to navigate and do their work here in New York City.
Don MacPherson: [00:01:55] You're on New York City's COVID-19 reopen task force. And before we talk about what the reopening plan is, can you describe the impact the virus has had on New York over the last year?
Penny Abeywardena: [00:02:07] New York City became the epicenter of the pandemic back in late March. Well into April, May, early June, we had up to 5,000 positive test cases a day and up to 700 deaths a day. It was extraordinary.
And I think most people know New York City is robust, lively, "the city that never sleeps" and we shut down. We shut down to really hear ambulances all day long — all night long. It was a real crisis mode. A colleague of mine at the UN I think said it best. And it was that no one ever anticipated in New York City becoming the front line. And when we became the front line, it was both terrifying but also uplifting. So many New Yorkers stayed, and we rallied and we supported each other and it was pretty incredible how the community came together. Of course, my city colleagues worked, we all worked tirelessly. But to be fair, some worked far more far harder than others. And so, I'm so grateful.
Don MacPherson: [00:03:06] When you look back, what has happened to the city in terms of unemployment or business loss? You talked about people moving, or leaving the city, the impact on the healthcare system... what are some of these indicators that have been impacted by the virus?
Penny Abeywardena: [00:03:22] We had to as an administration in terms of how we deal with COVID and how we get out. We had to focus on four areas. And this is how basic they were. We needed to ensure that all New Yorkers had access to food. We created a food czar. We suddenly had people that could not fathom going into a food line, you know, young tech startup employees. People who had no idea this could happen to them. We had to ensure that everybody was able to access food, ensure that they had a roof over their head access to healthcare and health facilities. The one thing that we did not want were people that weren't insured, who had COVID to not feel comfortable going and getting and seeking the support that they needed.
These are all of the pieces that we had to get back to. That it's just, you know, this is about the future of cities. This became about the basics of city government. What do your citizens need? It's food it's security. That was the fourth piece of it. Ensuring people felt safe, but it's food security, a roof over their heads and healthcare. And so that is where the bulk of our expenditure was in 2020. And when the mayor reflected on and released the budget late last year, one of the realizations where like, you couldn't anticipate the costs that COVID incurred upon the city.
We have over a million children in our department of education system. All of them had to go to school remotely. One of the first things that we had to invest in was broadband and underserved communities and ensuring those kids had access to good wifi. But if they didn't have tablets, the city was providing it so that they can access education from home. There were all of these increased costs that were impossible to consider prior to COVID hitting. And so these are the ways in which we spent that we now need to get stimulus and get the support to essentially get New York City back up and running with some real financial support from the federal government.
Don MacPherson: [00:05:37] When you think about other U.S. Cities that were impacted by coronavirus, were there any other U.S. Cities impacted nearly as much as New York?
Penny Abeywardena: [00:05:47] Everybody's getting hit extremely hard within their context. I think New York City stands out because of the timing because we were first. I don't think that we got hit any harder than certain communities in the South or the Midwest or the West coast that has happened since last spring.
Don MacPherson: [00:06:09] I think there are a couple of elements there. You are hit first, the density of the population and the lack of knowledge about this disease.
Penny Abeywardena: [00:06:18] That's right. And I think the lack of knowledge really impacted, I think the numbers in deaths. Right? So now, doctors just know how to deal with COVID patients better in a different way. And so that's sort of the extraordinary experience that we had having survived spring 2020.
Don MacPherson: [00:06:36] And can you talk about New York's reopening plan?
Penny Abeywardena: [00:06:41] So one of the first things that happened early last summer was creating a different taskforce per industry. Whether it was the creative industry, which is obviously, we have Broadway. The financial industry, obviously we have Wall Street, real estate, but we also recognized in creating these taskforces for rebuilding and reopening, we had to actually look at what happened, and to whom it had happened to.
Without question, the communities that got hit hardest in New York City, were our Black and brown communities. It really showcased all the inequities. People early on wanted to talk about COVID being the great equalizer. It is absolutely not the great equalizer. It really hit our most underserved horse communities the hardest.
So he created also a task force on racial inclusion and equity. And I just want to put that out there as the foundation for what we are doing this year. And again, this is the last year of the DeBlasio administration. We have a mayoral race in full swing right now, and we will have a new administration come 2022.
There's a lot of work that has to be done, but we are trying to create that foundation. And so, these policies that I'm going to talk about were created not just at city hall or with agency heads, but really talking to experts in each of these industries.
One of the first things that we have to do in terms of jump-starting our recovery is focusing on expanding access to the vaccinations. We have not talked about that yet, but right now we are living that part of the COVID-19 saga. And that is ensuring that enough people get vaccinated. One of the areas in which we need to focus on is creating a vaccine for all. We need to make sure that all New Yorkers are being able to access the vaccine, but we are creating workforce opportunities with that.
We also need to focus on our small businesses and making sure that they are revitalized and that they are continued to be supported here in New York City. So one of the areas we have done, and I think other cities have sort of started to copy it, but the open restaurants program that was incredibly successful. And one way that we were able to keep small business restaurants open over the summer and in fall, this is now a permanent aspect of New York City.
When your listeners come to New York City, we have one... Paris has led this, but I'd like to dub it the 15-minute-city. You can literally get everything you need in your neighborhood. Restaurants, bodegas, everything are now open almost 15 hours a day. And if you can't do indoor dining, you can do it outdoors.
There's just such a beautiful ability for us to rethink the way the city is going to be. One of the things that we've focused on in terms of helping small businesses is a recovery tax credit, business recovery loans, we are focused on cutting fines and red tape. This is just an area in which we know this is the heart of each of our communities. People think of New York City as this aggregate. It really is a bunch of small communities through our five boroughs, and we have to revitalize at that level of community.
There is the digital divide. We are investing in broadband. This has to be the year of 5G, but we have to ensure that if this were to ever happen again, we have the infrastructure for our million+ students to be able to learn and grow and continue their education at home.
We have to focus on our educational system, not only the digital divide, but ensuring that we are focused on reopening our schools and investing in what that looks like for the next generation. So to answer your question in a broad way, there are so many places in which as we think about rebuilding, it has to be focused on these fundamental pillars. Because you can't do one without the other.
so we've been rolling out all of these different policies. And again, one of the challenges is that we are in an unprecedented financial crisis. So it is how we are working with the federal government, how we are working with the private sector, that's going to really bring back the energy of the city.
Don MacPherson: [00:11:00] What are you doing to bring back big businesses to these beautiful office towers you have throughout the city? Because we've been working remotely pretty effectively for about a year now. And I think in order for New York City and other cities to be revitalized, workers do have to come back to downtown areas or to office parks and these types of buildings that are so vital.
Penny Abeywardena: [00:11:27] What we need to do is get our population vaccinated. So for this year, we are in 2021, the focus is getting the majority of people vaccinated so that we can reopen our communities. And again, to get people back in buildings, the buildings have to feel safe. And the way that they're going to feel safe is if people are able to interact with each other. Once you're vaccinated, you have to wear a mask. You still have to be washing your hands. You have to be social distancing. But it gives you that layer of safety that I think is going to allow people to come back to work. You said that people have been working well remotely, I'm going to challenge that.
I think it has been a significant struggle for many people. And what it has done is shown the role that government, whether it be city government or federal government, has to do in ensuring that people are able to navigate their life and get to work. That includes eldercare. That includes childcare. And this is the way that COVID compounded all of these issues, right? There are people that are working full-time jobs that are trying to figure out how to support their two kids with online learning at home as well. We have to figure out how childcare, eldercare, all of that is going to play out for that community of people to come back to work.
But once they're able to, I think people want to come back and interact. And I personally miss the kind of brainstorms and the kinds of connectivity I had with my colleagues. All the Zooms in the world, don't give that connection that I had when I would run into a colleague in the hallway and stop and talk about the weekend. I think these are the small bits of humanity that we have missed having gone fully into the Zoom world.
So to answer your original question, what are we doing to bring people back into New York City and into our big skyscrapers, it's got to be number one, that people feel safe to do it. And the only way we can do that is through mass vaccinations and ensuring that we are focused on doing that this year.
Don MacPherson: [00:13:35] Inequality is one of the trends that will continue to shape this current decade. It's not just race, but healthcare, quality education, gender rights, wealth... what can, and should cities be doing in order to create a more fair system that enables opportunity for more people?
Penny Abeywardena: [00:13:50] As we start thinking about rebuilding, the reality is we need the money.
The policies are here, the strategies are here, right? Even the vaccine distribution. What we need though, is the funding to help get us to that next place. And I do think the federal government and the stimulus package is part of it, but we also need to reassess the way that quite honestly... I think redistribution is a triggering word, but we need to see how the community comes together to support the people that have been really, really hit. You have to imagine the last stimulus package stopped working a couple of months ago. We have so many, not only in New York City but around the U.S. that are barely putting food on their table or keeping a roof above their head. And that to me is the real tragedy of COVID-19. It has put so many more people in a desperate situation and that's gotta be addressed at so many levels.
Don MacPherson: [00:14:49] And you talked about how New York has given out tools and tablets and things like that for students, but what should the role or responsibility of a city be particularly around education?
Penny Abeywardena: [00:15:02] Yeah, it's funny because right now you can't even barely separate education from affordable broadband access. So we did give tablets to all of our students that did not have it prior to COVID-19. So a couple of strategies that we have been working on is working with community organizations and looking at both new and existing internet providers to be able to open up the broadband market. We need them in order to support our internet goals. So when city government gets entrepreneurial— and that's exactly what COVID has allowed, not only New York City, but cities around the U.S. And around the world is, when you're drinking out of a fire hose, you have to get as entrepreneurial as possible. And a lot of that red tape and the bureaucratic loopholes that you always think about when you think about government, that gets sidelined a little bit, which I think is such an opportunity.
So one of the areas in which New York City focused on is we decided to leverage our infrastructure throughout all of the five boroughs. So this is rooftops, all of our buildings, even street furniture. And we have created a new broadband network that can reach almost half a million New Yorkers with affordable service this year.
So think about that. When you are walking down the street and seeing— I love the use of furniture, but it's our old phone booths but they're being actively utilized to offer affordable broadband service to New Yorkers. And so that's the way that we've been really creative.
And of course, we're incentivizing companies to provide low-cost broadband options to our NYCHA housing facilities, which is our public housing facilities around the five boroughs.
Don MacPherson: [00:16:47] One of the previous guests we had on the show — a guy named Justin Reich at MIT — talked about the future of education and he suggested that broadband or internet access should be a utility. So accessible for all. How do you feel about that?
Penny Abeywardena: [00:17:02] That's an interesting idea.
Don MacPherson: [00:17:04] It's almost impossible to function in 2021 without internet access.
Penny Abeywardena: [00:17:09] That's exactly right. I think that's essentially how we're functioning in terms of leveraging our city infrastructure, but also with what's happened with our schools. And again, the schools reopening is exactly the same conversation, or needs to be, as getting our office workers back in our skyscrapers. You can't really do one without the other. A worker's not going to go back into their office until if they have children, they're able to go back into school.
And again, we have to figure out how we reopen our schools safely, not only for the students, but for the teachers and all of the staff that support that and creating and investing in increased ventilation systems. We've got to be able to provide the PPE inside the schools and create enough space that you can socially distance.
And this is why this is such a long-term investment because even once a lot of people are vaccinated and we're able to reopen schools, it's not going to be going back to normal in any form or fashion. And I think that's where the focus on the achievement gap too, for our young people over what happened in 2020, 2021, that's gotta be a focus of the city government as well.
Don MacPherson: [00:18:28] What accomplishments has the city made in terms of reducing the homeless population or providing opportunities to get people off the streets and in jobs or in homes?
Penny Abeywardena: [00:18:41] So that question would have been easier to answer back in March or February of 2020. Part of the crisis mode that we have gone into and with the significant hit to our economy and job losses of the last year... We don't have numbers or much improvement in that. What we have been able to do is create safe spaces for our homeless community. One of the first things that we identified was the unsafe conditions of our homeless community in shelters. We started to open up hotels and other public areas and to be able to put homeless people in places where they could shelter in place in a safe way.
So the focus has really been about ensuring that we're able to get enough beds, enough private spaces, for our homeless community. Now, while we're doing that, there is still workforce development and other services that we partner with community organizations to provide them. But it's impossible to answer your question when what we're really seeing is an increase in need because of the hit to our economy over the last year. And which quite honestly Don, we're still living through. Talking about the future of cities while you're in the middle of living through the crisis, that's going to reshape that the future. So there's a lot of building the airplane as we fly it right now.
Don MacPherson: [00:20:08] Let's turn our attention to climate because many experts believe that this decade is make or break time in the fight against climate change. I would agree with them. I'm not an expert in climate change, but I don't see... if we don't address it...
Penny Abeywardena: [00:20:21] All the experts in New York City, all of them with that. So we are in that moment for sure.
Don MacPherson: [00:20:25] So let's talk about what specifically New York is doing to reduce its carbon footprint or address climate change.
Penny Abeywardena: [00:20:31] Yeah, I will say we have been doing this well before pre-COVID. We actually had our green plan announced back in April of 2019. But even as the Trump administration pulled out of the Paris Climate Accord, we committed ourselves directly to the Paris Climate Accord. And challenged and tried to exceed some of the benchmarks in this global agreement. We're actually trying to be even more ambitious. And I will go through a couple of things that we're doing in the city that I think are particularly innovative. But we're also part of leading the way around climate accountability.
So we started with the London Mayor, Sadiq Khan, a global divestment network. And so we are divesting our pension funds, billions of dollars, from the fossil fuel companies. And this is a way of not only taking action in terms of what we're doing within the city, but where we're literally putting our money.
And I will say that New York City, both under Bloomberg and Mayor DeBlasio, we lived through Superstorm Sandy. We saw a trillion dollars of damage about 70 New Yorkers killed through that climate moment that hurricane a few years back. And so that's really been at the heart of why we've taken it on fighting the climate crisis.
This is making historic green investments, reducing our dependence on cars and fossil fuels, we’re really excited to announce that we are connecting New York City to clean Canadian hydropower. That is going to be a very significant step that the city is going to take. As we like to say, we are aiming to reach our goal to power New York City's government with 100% renewable electricity by 2025. And so connecting us to this Canadian hydro-power is critical in doing that.
We are banning new fossil fuel connections by 2030. So this is part of our Green New Deal. And we're working to lead cities across the country on addressing this. So we are going to move forward to ban new fossil fuel connections in new construction. That's a big step for a city like New York to, to commit to that. We are decarbonizing our New York City pension funds. So as I mentioned, we're divesting from the fossil fuel industry, but it's not just the divestment in that, we are actually making significant investments in green technology. The role New York City can play here as a market maker, as somebody that can work with cities like London, but cities around the U.S. too will be very significant for us moving forward. So that's some of the primary things that we are we're doing in terms of achieving our commitment to the Paris Climate Agreement.
And then of course, there's a number of things we're doing in our communities like expanding parks and bridges and new bike lanes and open street promenades that will make the everyday experience livelihood of New Yorkers that much better from an environment perspective.
Don MacPherson: [00:23:37] What about preparation in terms of rising sea levels and more frequent or violent storms? What are the steps being taken in New York?
Penny Abeywardena: [00:23:45] So I can't answer the specifics to that. But prior to COVID-19, that was a priority. That was essentially how we rebuild past Superstorm Sandy. So we saw significant sections of our five boroughs get flooded. That has been something that our city hall team has been working on for the seven years. I don't know the specifics to it. But that has been a priority and is being actively handled.
Don MacPherson: [00:24:12] The UN is predicting that nearly 70% of the world's population will live in urban areas by 2050. I couldn't believe that 40% of the world's population lives within 60 miles of the coast. So that's about 3 billion people. Much of the growth will be in China, India, Nigeria. How can cities that are poised for significant growth, do it in a climate-conscious manner? I think you talked a little bit about what New York is doing, but what would you recommend to other cities that are going to be growing dramatically?
And I looked at Lagos, Nigeria, for example, it's a city of 24 million people. It's on the coast. They're already experiencing massive, massive floods. And they predict that by the end of the century, the sea levels will rise about almost a meter.
Penny Abeywardena: [00:24:59] You know what, we have been. We've decided early on we are not going to give advice because every country, every government, every region has its own local context. What we had decided to do instead in New York City is create a platform where we can exchange best practices. We believe that this is not the time to start creating new ideas. This is about actually reflecting on what's worked and what can be transferable into your community.
So that is something that you mentioned the UN, the United Nations, back in 2015 agreed to the global goals. It's called the sustainable development goals. Climate is at the heart of it. Cities and urban infrastructure is at the heart of it. And so what we have done over the last few years is connect exactly what these counterparts, whether it's Lagos for South Palo or Paris, we have connected with these cities and said, "Listen, we all have similar problems. They're just extremely different contexts, but if we are talking to each other and we are sharing how we are getting it done, this might be able to accelerate the way that you're able to translate ideas that you think will work into your community."
And so we have been doing that through what's called the voluntary local review movement, which is us, New York City, and about 220 cities and local governments around the world, essentially translating what we're doing, whether it's in transportation or in climate, or in gender equity, into the lens and framework of the sustainable development goals and actively sharing and connecting on these ideas.
I know you're looking for like a quick and easy answer, but I do think as cities, and I've gotten to know so many different mayors as they are being challenged with all of this, their primary lens is the local context, the community they have to talk to. What is viable in their local context. And so the most useful thing that we have seen is by being able to present ideas in a common language that we're all using in this case, we're using the sustainable development goals framework for them their local experts in sanitation and transportation to figure out how to translate all of this.
And we saw that with COVID-19. What's really interesting is that the WhatsApp group started amongst my counterparts in cities around the world. It's like, okay, New York City, you're seeing this data, what's happening here in Mexico City is like this, well, we're starting to see this what's happening here.
And being able to also start to connect our experts to start talking to each other. So it's the connectivity and keeping this openness to exchanging ideas beyond borders, I think is what's going to help cities around the world as we struggle with all of this climate change and other challenges like COVID-19.
Don MacPherson: [00:27:54] What's interesting to me about that, if I'm understanding it correctly, is that it is cities led. It's not federal government. And what is also interesting about that is I think a lot of people would think that local government or city government doesn't have a whole lot of power influence, but you're indicating otherwise.
Penny Abeywardena: [00:28:15] From an American perspective, I think the one thing that was a real takeaway for me during the Trump administration, was that it was an opportunity for progressive's to be able to showcase the power of local government.
I think conservatives in an American context have historically been very effective in using local government, whether it was around reproductive rights for LGBT, less so on the progressive side for us to understand the power of local governments. And we were able to then over the last few years, really showcase how much we can get done around policing, around climate change, just at the city level.
And as we were going through that exercise, that experience here in New York City, my office created this voluntary local review movement. And the reality was is that local governments around the world, irrespective of what was happening at the federal or state level, had a significant amount of power that they didn't actually know how to use beyond what they were doing in their city.
This allowed us to figure out within this collective, this is how we can actually really push and get ourselves a seat at the table. As we saw more national governments, not only in the U.S. But in Brazil, throughout Europe, really abdicate on climate action and climate change, you really saw cities and other local governments saying, hey, that might be what they think over there, but this is what we're doing over here.
And so I think there has been a real power that has been unleashed over the last few years. That I think will continue to flourish because we did that around climate change and a couple of other issues pre-COVID. COVID hit and nothing hit home stronger I think to every single citizen than how absolutely relevant their local government was.
And so I think part of the future of cities is going to just be an appreciation, which I hope means that more people get involved with the role of local leadership in the everyday governance of their cities.
Don MacPherson: [00:30:25] Yeah. I think another aspect or element is speed and resilience and agility. I think of the agility piece is really important. Federal governments are not typically going to be moving quickly and cities are going to have to, if we're going to combat a lot of the issues that we've talked about so far.
One other concept you talked about is the 15-minute-city concept and we kind of glanced over it, but could you talk about what the 15-minute-city is and, and how that works for its citizens?
Penny Abeywardena: [00:30:57] Yeah, I think the only place that has actively taken it on from my understanding, what I've read is Paris. Then it really is, I think, the reality of both climate and COVID-19 coming together. But how do you create an environment within your community where you're getting served all your needs, whether it is your work, whether it is your children's schooling, your healthcare needs, et cetera, are being serviced in your immediate community so that you're not commuting, so that you're not essentially a burden on larger infrastructure that then impacts climate change.
So I said it largely in jest, but that is what I feel like is slowly happening here in New York City, or at least for me on the Upper West Side. But I can function within pretty well within 15 minutes of my home, just because I happen to be living in a privileged neighborhood. But how do we then provide those kinds of services and resources into every community? That's the challenge. I don't know how successful Paris has been in it. But that is something that they are looking at in terms of their future of cities.
Don MacPherson: [00:32:07] It seems like New York is set up for that. I've been to Paris many times and I can kind of visualize 15 minutes walking to work, 15 minutes to a school restaurant, parks, hospitals, culture venues. These are accessible in Paris, but it seems like New York could be set up that way with maybe some exceptions in the boroughs. I mean, certainly, Manhattan seems to be set up that way potentially.
Penny Abeywardena: [00:32:32] Yeah. And that's, again, I think that the heart of it, the areas that can do that have to be well-resourced. And so the challenge to that 15-minute-city is ensuring that we're focused on every part of New York City. And making sure that they're as well-resourced as the Upper West Side. That is part of why we are investing in broadband in more parks and promenades ensuring that our small businesses in Jackson Heights are able to sustain beyond this crisis period and continue to thrive.
The thing about cities is that we are this ecosystem that thrives on each other. And so if you're not doing well, then your neighbor's not doing well to a certain extent. You need that community thriving fully for it to be working well.
Don MacPherson: [00:33:24] When you think about the city of the future, what does it look like to you?
Penny Abeywardena: [00:33:29] To me, the city of the future has to serve its poorest. It has to have the poorest and the most underserved at the heart of it. That community, that individual, has to have an opportunity to thrive for the city of the future to thrive. You mentioned a UN stat in terms of the number of people that are going to live in the city. It would be far too easy for that tale of two cities to quickly come, where a certain segment is living comfortably, and the rest are just completely unseen and in the shadows. And to me, that is not the way cities are going to thrive. All city policies, all city infrastructure, really needs to have a tilt towards that community to make sure that the opportunities are there. Whether in education, access to healthcare, affordable housing, because if that part of the community is not thriving, I think it will damage the health of the city.
Don MacPherson: [00:34:27] Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And in the United States, I think there are a number of broken cities. We've talked about this before. I would say San Francisco and LA certainly, Seattle very likely, and maybe New York and Chicago throw them in there as well where you have extraordinarily wealthy people, and the city works very well for them and they're able to enjoy the amenities. And then there are many, many people who are just hanging on by a thread, and that is not a great future scenario.
Like it works for a while, but you look back to last year and the inequality and the riots and the protests. And you can expect that to happen for a long time if we don't fix some of these things.
Penny Abeywardena: [00:35:09] I mean, that's exactly right. And I think that is the ongoing challenge but an opportunity for people to get into government and into public administration. I mean, I will say the one thing that I've really enjoyed about my last seven years in city government was the ability to be an entrepreneur. Well, obviously I have this incredible stage in which to do it, which is New York City, but the ability to bring different, innovative, creative ideas and policies into the work that I do, I think really allowed me to believe in the future of cities and the way that we're able to address these challenges. So it's rife with opportunity. People need to get in and do the work.
Don MacPherson: [00:35:57] This has been a phenomenal conversation, Penny. Thank you for your time today and thank you for being a genius.
Penny Abeywardena: [00:36:03] Thank you so much, Don. I really appreciate you having me on this podcast.
Don MacPherson: [00:36:09] Thank you for listening to 12 Geniuses and thank you to our sponsors. The think2perform Research Institute. In the next episode, we'll explore the future of humanity. Our guest is author and futurist David Houle. That episode will be released March 23rd, 2021.
Thank you to our producer, Devon McGrath, and our research and historical consultant, Brian Bierbaum if you love this podcast, please let us know by subscribing and leaving us a review on iTunes or your favorite podcast app. To subscribe, please go to 12 Geniuses.com. Thanks for listening. And thank you for being a genius.
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