Transcript for “Combating Media and Institutional Mistrust” with Tara McGowan
Most Americans do not trust traditional media. Some do not believe in our elections. The growing spread of mistrust in our country's institutions impacts civic engagement and our democracy. As a former journalist and political strategist, Tara McGowan provides insights into this crisis and what we can do to counter America’s lack of faith in the pillars that make our democracy tick.
In this conversation, Tara discusses the extent of the disinformation problem in the United States and where it is concentrated, what individuals and organizations are creating it, why people are drawn to outrageous news stories, and the health of societies that suffer from rampant disinformation. She goes on to talk about the incredible progress the United States has made in advancing human rights, where people can go to find trustworthy news sources, and she finishes with what fills her with optimism.
Tara McGowan is the founder and publisher of COURIER, a fast-growing left-leaning news network with local newsrooms in eleven states. COURIER is building a more informed, engaged, and representative democracy by reaching tens of millions of Americans where they are online with factual, values-driven news that inspires civic participation. A former journalist and political strategist, Tara has seen firsthand how America’s growing information chasm has contributed to increased polarization and the rising threat of authoritarianism. Earlier in her career, Tara led some of the largest digital advertising and marketing programs supporting progressive causes and candidates in U.S. politics, including at ACRONYM, Priorities USA, NextGen Climate, and as a digital strategist on President Obama’s 2012 re-election campaign.
Thank you to Starts with Us for their collaboration on this series. Starts with Us is an organization committed to overcoming extreme political and cultural division. Check them out at startswith.us.
Tara McGowan: The reality of the current moment we are with media information is that folks are looking for trusted messengers more than brands or news outlets or organizations. And so really understanding where people come from, who pays them, what content is sponsored versus not — that really matters. And also just thinking when you are feeling something, like you did when you were watching some news program, where you’re like, “Wait, I don’t like the way I physically feel right now.” Like, my nervous system is reacting. When you feel that, know that that’s the intention.
Don MacPherson: That is Tara McGowan, Founder and Publisher of Courier Newsroom. Tara joined 12 Geniuses to discuss the disinformation in American politics fed to us by the media.
My name is Don MacPherson, your host of 12 Geniuses. Heading into any election season can be divisive, that’s why 12 Geniuses has partnered with Starts With Us on this series to help you navigate the overall 2024 election.
Tara McGowan is a former political strategist who, in 2019, started Courier Newsroom with a goal of countering disinformation while restoring trust in government. In our discussion, Tara talks about why Americans have lost faith in traditional media, the extent of disinformation in politics and the media, and how trust can be restored in both.
Thank you to Starts With Us for their collaboration on this series. Starts With Us is an organization committed to overcoming extreme political and cultural division. Check them out at startwith.us.
Tara, welcome to 12 Geniuses.
Tara: Thanks so much for having me, Don. I’m happy to be here.
Don: Let’s start out with your background. Tell us who you are and what you’re all about.
Tara: Sure. My name’s Tara McGowan. I am the Founder and Publisher of Courier Newsroom and the CEO of Good Information Inc., Courier’s parent company. I moved around a lot as a kid, was a corporate brat. My dad worked for medical sales, but Rhode Island was always home, and it’s where I live now again. And I’m sure we’ll dig into more of my career, but that’s enough.
Don: All right. And so you are involved with Courier Newsroom, which is a newer organization, what’s the mission of Courier?
Tara: Sure. So I started Courier in about the spring of 2019, so about four and a half years old. And we are a pro-democracy network of local newsrooms across the country that reach what we describe as passive news consumers where they get their information online, primarily social media platforms like Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and through email newsletters. And our overall mission is to build a more informed, engaged, and representative America by delivering factual values-driven local news to communities that are no longer being reached by traditional media.
Don: Okay. And your history, your career history involves being a political strategist. So, how did you go from being a political strategist to working to counter disinformation?
Tara: Yeah. Well, so I actually started my career as a journalist at 60 Minutes and Frontline for PBS before I made a pivot. I covered the 2008 elections at 60 Minutes, and then I moved to D.C. and started working in politics where I ran digital communications and advertising programs on behalf of progressive causes and candidates for a little over a decade. And that work brought me back into journalism and the mission of countering the rise of disinformation misinformation online — Primarily because as a political strategist who was running voter communications programs, essentially, campaigns to be able to get good information, factual information about candidates or issues in front of voters, I learned a lot about how social media platforms work, how algorithms work, how they are built on a pay to play model.
So, you can reach anyone you want if you’re willing to put the dollars into platforms like Meta, Facebook, YouTube, Google. And you can be really targeted. Advertisers can be very targeted on those platforms, so you can be more efficient, which you need to be in politics. You have a very limited amount of time and a limited amount of resources to talk to all the people you want to talk to and get your message out. And so I became really knowledged about how the fractured media environment was leaving so many millions of Americans behind from good news and information, but they were getting inundated with really bad information — disinformation, misinformation, propaganda, information coming from bad actors abroad, foreign interference in elections, as so many folks are well aware about those accounts from 2016 and beyond. And we’re seeing them again now.
And so I really started to study the audiences that were most vulnerable to this bad information and how we could counter it and really arrived at a not so novel solution. But I really do believe that the best antidote to disinformation is good information. And good information is the lifeblood of democracy. And so it’s really just a matter of how do we get the good information in front of the populations that are no longer accessing it whether they are not interested in paying through paywalls, where so much of good journalism now is trapped behind, or their attention is spread thin — they work multiple jobs, they are raising families, and they’re getting all this information for free on their social media platforms. So, how do we work with the algorithms? How do we work with the platforms in the way that they’ve been created as long as they’re not regulated to take care of the stuff on their own in order to make sure that good factual news and information and content reaches these individuals who also play an outsize role in our democracy?
These are the folks who don’t vote regularly if they vote at all. But when they do vote, when they do have access to good information, they tend to vote in line with popular values as opposed to extremist views. And that is really important to the protection and strengthening of our democracy.
Don: I want to ask you about the founding of Courier, and moving from being a political strategist to the founder of Courier, was there a disillusionment moment in your career?
Tara: I really did have this moment where I felt like I was contributing to the problem of increasing division and polarization in certain ways, knowing that good government exists, good politicians exist. I personally am a Democrat. I’m very transparent about that and have been my whole life. But that trusted messengers really matter and news and local news in particular are of the most trusted news sources to Americans, and yet there is a local news crisis in this country. I’ve always been a little entrepreneurial and a little creative in my solution set. So, when I was thinking about what was missing in the ecosystem, I didn’t think another organization that spent millions of dollars on ads was really what was missing, which is what I was doing at the time. I felt like we had actually needed to build new models of media and journalism in this country that were transparent, that maintained the best of journalistic ethics and integrity, but that were unabashed, unapologetic, and transparent about having a point of view.
And building trust with audiences through that transparency in order to actually meet people where they are with information they need and information that they want in order to be more informed and empowered. And to play a real role in their communities and in our democracy.
Don: Can you summarize the extent of the disinformation problem in the United States?
Tara: We have a crisis of trust in this country that I think is due in large part to the increased proliferation of disinformation and misinformation online and offline, right? It doesn’t always stay online, of course. It leads to real-world change and dangerous world impacts. And to put some numbers behind it, there are at least 50 million Americans who still believe that the 2020 election was fraudulent, the results, which we know factually to be incorrect. 20% of Americans believe QAnon is real, which is a baseless conspiracy theory. 16% of the public in America say that they trust the federal government always, or most of the time, which is the lowest level in seven decades in this country. And trust in media among Americans is at an unprecedented low. And again, I think that that last point is actually very intentional by a lot of extremists and folks on the right who have done an enormous amount of work to undermine faith and trust in media in order to be the trusted messengers, which is a standard pillar of authoritarian and fascist communication strategies.
And it’s worked. It’s worked, right? We’re seeing trust in faith in government and in media at historic lows because of a lot of intentional efforts and because of a lot of inaction, I think, by good government actors to actually meet people where they are and communicate with them in a way that is authentic and relatable, frankly. I think that’s another challenge in the media today where we do have good factual journalism of which there is a good supply in this country. It’s still not actually accessible to a lot of people. It’s talking to folks who are very high information consumers, who are of most educated, or the wealthiest Americans. Because it really is intentionally around influencing the influencer class as opposed to informing the public.
And that chasm has just gotten wider and wider over time. And so I think that disinformation has bad actors who spread disinformation, have very smartly weaponized these new channels of social media and algorithms and the fact of being able to provide free information to folks who don’t otherwise have access to free journalism with a lot of sludge. So, disinformation has very, very, very real world impacts. And my fear around it is that the word has become so ubiquitous, it’s lost its meaning in certain ways. I worry about that, about the word democracy today as well. We call ourselves very proudly a pro-democracy news organization, but folks kind of forget what that means. Democracy is about the people. It’s not about a party over another party.
It’s about people having access to good information and agency in their votes, in their voice, in their civic participation, their ability to protest peacefully, their ability to vote. These are rights that are being actively tried to be taken away by extremists who run for office or in office today. And so I think that everybody has a responsibility to put more definition and real stories of real people and the consequences behind these words that can lose their meaning that are so critical for us to be able to solve as problems before us today.
Don: One of the things that I think is missing currently is some sort of vision that the United States is going to achieve. And I wonder if you can comment on that because it doesn’t matter who’s in power, whether it’s a democratic president or a Republican president, etc. Where are we going as a country, and why is there no sort of vision that can unite us all?
Tara: I don’t want to say that there isn’t room or space for big visionary ideas or leadership, but we seem a little bit constrained by the immense threats before us and the stakes of those threats. And the optimistic side of me, which overpowers the cynic in me every time because I could not do this work otherwise, very much believes that we are going to get through this election. We are going to come out on the other side with democracy stronger than ever before. And that there are so many leaders that have incredible ideas and ideals to share and really reenergize democracy in this country. That we are all going to feel like we lived through some strange fever dream when we get to that stage. And that is the hope that I carry because I know some of these people and they have incredible visions for this country.
And there is a generational transition that is inevitably going to happen in our leadership, and needs to happen. I don’t think it needs to happen in this election with these individuals. I think that it is already happening in terms of leadership at the state and local level in this country. Some of our cabinet officials are of my generation and have big, bold ideas and experience in getting things done.
Don: The alternatives to democracy are not that favorable. But do you think that the average voter understands that?
Tara: I think the average voter today does. I qualify it with today because I believe that the electorate, the voting electorate in this country has changed dramatically since when I started working in politics a little over 10 years ago. And in large part that is owed to Donald Trump and the rise of extremism on the far right because it has brought more people into the process than we had seen for a long time.
Don: You are an optimist, I love it.
Tara: But this is also very data-driven. This is math. There are people who are becoming likely consistent voters who did not vote at all before 2018 or 2016 or who voted maybe only in presidential elections, and now show up in every midterm and special election. Like, you look out the turnout numbers in special elections in Wisconsin or Pennsylvania or any election where abortion, a constitutional amendment to protect rights to abortion are on the ballot in red states like Kansas and Ohio, and we are seeing more civic participation than we have seen. And so I actually do believe that most Americans that do vote or have started to vote more consistently absolutely understand the threat. Nobody wants their rights taken away. And this is where I think the extremists and Trump on the right have very much overstepped and really misunderstood how much it would wake up Americans to the need, frankly, to use their voice and their vote to protect their rights and protect the rights of other people in their communities.
Do I think that everybody is tuned in all of the time? No. We’re seeing news consumption decline dramatically for a number of reasons, right? It’s heavy. The world is heavy. Things that are happening in the world and here are heavy. There are real consequences to elections and to whether or not we have a democracy, to your earlier point. And so I don’t think everyone needs to understand fully what this country will look like without a democracy. But Donald Trump is saying it. He’s being very explicit about what his plans for a much more authoritarian government would be if he were elected. And it’s my job as a publisher of a news organization, it’s the job of everyone who works in news and media and the job of everyone who works on campaigns for candidates or causes that oppose extremists, or authoritarianism on the right to make sure that the American people do know this stuff. They do have the facts in front of them, front and center. And then I’m wholly convinced that they’ll show up and vote in line with their values.
Don: You talked about the extent of disinformation. Where’s this concentrated? Is it on social media primarily, or how much of it is traditional media or bias news outlets like CNN or Fox News?
Tara: Yeah, it’s tough to answer. I mean, it’s definitely mostly online where it spreads the fastest and the farthest because of the way that social media platforms and their algorithms are designed.
Don: And that’s the most powerful place?
Tara: That is the most powerful place. That’s where it’s spread. And the thing with disinformation, like any lie, if you hear it three times, you’re more likely to believe it, right? And so the fact that a lie or a piece of disinformation can spread literally like that and you cannot undo it, and there is no fact-checking that can undo it once it hits a real saturation point, that’s what’s really made this such a more exponentially dangerous crisis than in the past because disinformation has existed as long as there have been governments or political factions in the world. It is not new. Bad actors have always leveraged the technology at hand to be able to spread it. There’s just never been technology that’s allowed it to spread this quickly. And that’s really why there is such a crisis and why there’s such a need for regulation of these platforms of which there is not political will currently by either party in our Congress and in Washington to advance.
Don: One of the things that I picked up on a recent piece that you wrote is that teens are spending two hours a day on TikTok and about 40 minutes a day on YouTube. Two hours a day is a lot. And so you talked about meeting people where they. I just bring this up because it’s important for the listeners to understand where the next generation is or this upcoming generation is.
Tara: Yeah. I believe those figures are very conservative.
Don: Is that right?
Tara: I think that more young people are spending closer to four hours on average on these platforms just from my exposure to them and my own exposure to these platforms. They’re highly addictive. That’s how they are designed. There’s also an enormous amount of incredible content and content creators out there. It really is the democratization of information, for better and for worse. But something really, really, really important for your listeners to know is that there are 17 million more Gen Z eligible voters in the 2024 election than there were in 2020. And a lot of older generations have lost a lot of folks in those years. So, young millennials and Gen Z will be the largest voting bloc in the country for the first time in the 2024 election.
They will decide who turns out of those communities will decide who wins the election. So, youth has never mattered more. Also youth still kind of refers to millennials, but millennials like myself have families now and are buying homes or trying to, and yet they’re still saddled with debt they’re trying to pay off. So, they are real soon-to-be middle-aged adults. That’s also when voting habits tend to shift. But we’re seeing so much more civic engagement and participation among young voters and young eligible voters than I had seen. And the question really becomes, can they get enthused to turn out? And I do believe that the stakes on issues like abortion and climate change and gun control, which are the most motivating issues for younger voters because they have lived with the impacts of the failure to address these issues or the repeal of rights that should have been baked into the constitution of this country, like our right to bodily autonomy.
So, I, again, I have a lot of optimism that if we keep these issues and the contrast between the parties and the candidates on these issues front and center that we will see historic turnout among young people.
Don: I want to ask you about the sources of disinformation. Who is creating this? Is it individuals, political groups, or even entities outside the United States? I’m assuming it’s all of the above, but what do you know about each of those parties?
Tara: Yeah, it really is all of the above, right? It’s everyone from Candace Owens, who’s a very popular right-wing commentator who’s under a lot of fire this week for recent anti-Semitic comments. It’s global billionaire CEOs like Elon Musk who took over Twitter to be able to spread disinformation and rage bait for reasons that are still unclear to everyone outside of his ego. It’s traditional right-wing media like Fox News and their social reach through their commentators and their viewers online. And then it is foreign governments and bad actors from Russia and China. We’ve started to see an uptick. The U.S. government has put out a lot of reports of an uptick in intentional disinformation by Chinese actors on two, essentially, so division within U.S. electorate circles in this country.
We don’t have a handle on this. We truly don’t. I don’t want to give false hope to your listeners but we have to be really vigilant. And again, disinformation does not have as much of an impact if the same volume of factual information that counters it reaches people in the same places at the same time. So, you can’t have New York Times articles reaching people on their algorithm, which are subscribers and highly educated wealthy individuals, while the disinformation is reaching everyone else, and they’re not seeing those New York Times articles. You’ve got to reach people where they are at the same time. And that parity actually slows the spread of the disinformation quite significantly.
Don: But it seems like if that is going to happen, the algorithms have to change.
Tara: There is a lot of things that the social media platforms could do to eradicate a lot of disinformation. They could never eradicate it completely. It is a game of whack-a-mole; there is no question about that. But there are a lot of things that they can and have done in the past that they have decided to no longer do at the interest of their bottom line. Because when they turn off the spigots of disinformation or they turn up the volume of verified sources and facts, they lose engagement and money in the form of ad dollars. And so they’re making a very intentional business decision to keep the disinformation economy they have helped create in place.
Don: Doesn’t the federal government have an incentive to regulate that? And why aren’t we doing that? Is it because we’re just gridlocked from a party perspective?
Tara: I think there’s some of that. I think that there are a lot of competing priorities. It’s very hard to get things done with the way that our government is currently structured. If one party had the White House, the Senate, and Congress, a lot more things could get done in general for better or for worse depending on what side of the issues you’re on. But yeah, it has not been deemed a priority. I think where there is a lane that we might get to see some action is this new focus on children and mental health crisis because we’ve seen mental health issues arise in younger generations. Suicide rates increase. Eating disorders among younger girls in particular increase. These are issues that affect everyone’s kids regardless of party or politics. So, my hope is that could bring about some regulation of the platforms. It just it’s not made it over the finish line yet.
Don: I had this realization not too long ago regarding media, media consumption, and it was while watching a network that kind of supports my political views. And I just noticed story after story was served up to me to be outraged, and I just turned it off. I was like, “Well, why am I supporting an organization that is trying to outrage me with this information?” And why do you suppose we are drawn to that?
Tara: Yeah, I think it is in our human nature. I think that mavericks are called mavericks for a reason. They want to zag when another zig. For the most part, people want to be a part of community. And I think that’s what it comes down to. I think it’s what it comes down to for Fox News viewers. I think it’s what it comes down to for MSNBC viewers, like my parents who always have it on, and I tell them, and MSNBC will hate this, but I think cable news rots your brain. I think it really does. I think that it just continues to feed you things that make you a mote, to your point, that reinforce your belief system and make you feel helpless.
Don: I don’t like to be outraged.
Tara: No.
Don: I don’t. And as I become aware of that, so like on Twitter, I’ll see certain things, and it’s just like, “No, this is just being served up so I can get upset.” I don’t want to be upset. So, why don’t more of us just have the self-awareness to say, “Okay, I’m turning this off? You no longer serve what I want.”
Tara: Yeah, I mean, I would turn that back on you, though. You hit a point, right? And I wonder if the point that you hit was similar to the point that we’re seeing studies of people turning off the news because I think that there has been a saturation point. I think very few people would answer that question with, “I like to be enraged.” I don’t think most people like that. I don’t think that they’re consciously aware that that is what is happening and why. And when people are aware of that, nobody wants to be duped. Nobody wants to be a pawn of more attention in ad dollars. But that is essentially what it is. But also, it does get to that fact of wanting to feel a part of community. And I think a lot of people turn on these cable news networks because they have invited these folks into their home.
They have a relationship with them like any trusted messenger, right? And they don’t feel so alone. They feel like they’re getting, like, you’re never only getting the rage. You are getting some context or information based on what you’re getting, right? You are learning some things. And people also want to be… they want to feel informed. Yeah, I tend to agree with you. I don’t watch cable news at all because I don’t learn anything from it. I can see through it because this is the work that I do, but I get very frustrated as what I know it is doing to other people. And I have to confront that helplessness a lot. It’s not healthy. It’s not focused on the right things. It’s not focused on building bridges or common ground.
And there is not a profitable model any longer, as we saw with what CNN tried to do, to have neutral, if you will, neutral or unbiased programming that people aren’t going to call out as fake or bias anyhow. And that’s the real struggle is that we’ve got to figure out new models of media that actually bring the temperature down and inspire people to become more informed and engaged rather than push them further and more deeply into their own belief systems and biases. And whoever figures that out, I think, is going to do an enormous amount of good for centuries to come. It has not yet been figured out because people have to make money in order to scale things. And right now, money is made on our worst sides rather than our better angels, if you will.
Don: What does history tell us about the health of a society and its government when misinformation is rampant?
Tara: It is a very clear path towards authoritarianism. The more disinformation there is, the more lack of trust in media and institutions and government, the more likely a strong man, or strong woman, if we had one in that sense, can actually really appeal to the masses who just want to turn off and actually disengage. And that is exactly what we are facing down right now at this moment.
Don: I’m assuming there are a number of other countries who are in a similar situation. Can you identify a few?
Tara: Sure. Hungary. I believe Argentina just had an election with a very Trump-like candidate who won. I mean, you’re seeing it everywhere. I mean, I think-
Don: Turkey.
Tara: Turkey, absolutely. This is happening in a lot of countries. We’re in a moment in this world right now geopolitically where democracy is really, really, really hanging by a thread. And there’s a lot of theories for that. I don’t think democracies are perfect. I don’t think capitalism is perfect. I think they’re both very imperfect, but they seem to be the best options before us in terms of being able to advance quality of life for societies and communities and have some level of redistribution of wealth rather than an oligarchy. Progress takes time and is incremental, and we are very imperfect here in this country. But to backslide because of the disenchantment in the current system is disingenuous and very intentionally painted as such by the folks who want just unfettered power and control.
Don: I think fear has a lot to do with it, and we’ve seen incredible change over the last decade, certainly from a technology perspective, but also from a social perspective. And we’ll see even more change this decade. I would say that the first quarter of the 2020s was incredibly disruptive with the pandemic and starting of a war in this country, forest fires, and all of these massive, massive changes. And now you have climate angst. For sure, we’ve had that for a while. But we have AI angst now, just another thing. And so when you have fear like that, I think people can gravitate more toward authoritarianism and this is going to be the answer to my solutions. And it is not going to slow down. The change is not going to slow down anytime soon.
Tara: I was going to say they’re going to get much worse before they get better.
Don: But my perspective on it is we need to collaborate and the parties need to come together and work to address these problems. I have two daughters, five and seven, and I tell them the world has always had problems. We have a lot of problems now, the world will always have problems. But you only need to focus on one or two. Focus on solving one or two, and just know that other people are solving the other problems. But most people just see the bombardment of these problems. And when I was a kid, you read about it in the morning news and you saw it in the evening news, and that was it. And you just went about your day.
And now you can’t escape it. I would just love for listeners to understand, we’ve made an incredible amount of progress and will continue to make progress, and we will solve these problems. I have no doubt we’ll be able to solve these problems.
Tara: I agree with that. And I also think that it’s a testament to how much progress we’ve made, how fiercely there are powers trying to take it away and set us back because they are facing down changes they can’t do anything about like the fact that we are the most diverse country and becoming more so. And that progressive values are popular values now. And so, when you can’t convince people, you take away their rights, right? And that’s the trajectory that those folks are on. And yet there are more people who want to keep their rights and keep expanding on rights and opportunity. And so, as long as they’re informed and they still have those rights, and we make sure that they know about them and they use them, I think that we will come out on the other side of this. But it is a risk.
Don: What advice do you have for people seeking reliable, trustworthy sources?
Tara: I mean, look into who your sources are. I say this knowing that most people won’t or don’t. And the ones that are listening to this and heed that advice probably already are researching those sources. I think media criticism is tough. I mean, I think the reality of the current moment we are with media information is that folks are looking for trusted messengers more than brands or news outlets or organizations. And so really understanding where people come from, who pays them, right? What content is sponsored versus not, that really matters. And also just thinking when you are feeling something like you did when you were watching some news program, where you’re like, “Wait, I don’t like the way I physically feel right now, my nervous system is reacting.” When you feel that, know that that’s the intention. And then think about if you really want to engage in that type of content or messenger again because they’re doing that to evoke that physical and emotional reaction from you.
And that’s a good way of knowing, like, hmm, trust your instincts. Like, find something that kind of brings the temperature down rather than up. Even if there is something good in community-driven feeling about feeling that way and your family member feeling that way, what-have-you, let it spark a discourse, but understand that that is intentional.
Don: What should people do to better identify fake news or deep fakes?
Tara: Ooh, yeah. This is a tough one because we are going to see more deep fakes than we have ever seen.
Don: And more sophisticated.
Tara: Yeah. When you see an image that looks so wild it might not be true, the odds are it probably is not true. I would say that’s a number one rule. I think the thing that gives me, again, a little bit of hope about… I am scared about AI generally in terms of the future of the world and humanity and society, but in the short term, the thing that gives me a little bit of hope that it won’t be as disastrous as some people are saying it could be in next year’s election is that there is a massive movement towards people following real people and trusted messengers, as I mentioned. And that is a very difficult thing, not impossible, but a very difficult thing to simulate with AI still. And so the more you stay with the folks that you trust and you have followed and you engage with, the less likely you are to be susceptible to believing something that was created by AI and not founded in any basis of truth or fact.
Don: In an AI world, I believe that the superpowers are empathy, compassion, emotional intelligence, relationships, and trust. Trust is so important. And so, who do you trust? What sort of relationships do you have? Who’s vouching for you? Those are what will be critically important in the AI world. I think we’ve covered this a little bit, but if you have anything else to add on, how can we restore trust in the media?
Tara: Oh, I have so many ideas on this. So, something I talk about quite a bit is this illusion of objectivity. I think that you can be unbiased, but to say that you’re objective and you have no point of view, I believe that contributes to Americans’ mistrust in media today. I think people want authenticity. They want to know what you stand for. And if you tell them you don’t stand for anything, they’re not going to believe you, and they’re going to believe that you’re selling them a bag of goods. So, I am the biggest proponent for transparency of point of view, being clear about what your point of view is, why it is that way. It doesn’t need to fit in a clean clean bucket. I think there have been issues dealt with around this related to the Me Too movement and Black Lives Matter and things of this nature that newsrooms have had to deal with, where it’s like, just be honest about where you stand and what your position is.
And I think that can earn a lot more trust. I also think investing heavily in trusted messengers, the reporters, the journalists, the producers, behind the scenes — they are the personalities. They are the ones that are going to earn trust more than your brand today. And to treat them well and to think about how to really redefine what talent means, I think news organizations are struggling with that as well. So, for individuals and consumers of information, I think it really does come down to, again, identifying individuals who you trust, and not just people whose point of view you agree with at all, but people who bring the temperature down or who you really learn things from, not just hear things that you believe already, I think, is really important.
Don: There are often media innovations during presidential elections. I can think of radio in 1960 with Nixon and Kennedy. There was television, the internet, and big data. And I’m just wondering if you have a prediction for what the 2024 presidential election media innovation might be.
Tara: Yeah, I think that there’s a really scary one and then a really exciting one. So, we’ve talked about both already, but I do think AI and the rapid evolution of AI technology and deep fakes is going to play a role. As I mentioned, I hope not as significant one as some folks are worried about. But on the positive innovation side, I do think that there is extraordinary movement to invest in trusted content creators who have audiences that they’ve developed for reasons well outside of politics or news, but who do want to use their platforms for good and are willing to use their voice and the trust that they’ve built to encourage more informed media consumption and civic participation ultimately. So, I do think the embracing of influencers online and content creators over just one way advertising is where we’ve been headed for a while, and I really feel like the parties are embracing that.
Don: What’s your biggest fear for the presidential election in terms of information or information technology?
Tara: My biggest fear is always that the factual information that really informs and empowers people to participate doesn’t reach all of the people that it could. And that comes down to, in some ways, an economic problem, and sometimes a strategic problem. And I certainly have dedicated my life to trying to play a small role in the solution of that. But I do believe that if everyone had access to factual information that really met them where they are and talked about the issues in elections in a way that was really relevant to their day-to-day lives and the things that keep them up at night and the things that they want and dream and hope for, for their kids and their families, that we would have exponentially higher turnout in our elections and participation than we currently do.
Don: Yeah, just from a brain perspective and from a physiological perspective, it does require extra brain power. It does require extra energy and attention in order to seek out the novel and not confirm your existing beliefs and biases. But hopefully-
Tara: Everybody can play a role, too, in sharing good content and information. They should never assume other folks see it. I just think everyone is a content creator today. Everyone has some presence online or through their email networks, etc. Everybody playing a role absolutely makes a difference. It really does. I can’t stress that enough. We always say share good info. It truly is. It’s a very easy way for people to do something very good because you never know who you’re going to influence simply by putting that information in front of them.
Don: Tara, what gives you hope?
Tara: Oh, gosh, so many things. Give me hope. The American people give me hope. I think, really specifically, gen Z and younger generations give me an enormous amount of hope. I want to hand them the baton and say, “Run, run, run, run, run for everything.” Run for office, run the companies, run the organizations, run the government. They have the energy, they have the frustration, they have the intelligence, they have the creativity. I’m just blown away by young people today and think that they are going to change the world for the better.
Don: Let’s fast forward 50 years. What are we getting wrong today that those people are just going to shake their heads at in disbelief?
Tara: I mean, the thing that comes to mind is something we talked about that how did government and good actors not get ahead of the rapid evolution of technology and deregulation essentially of technology and media to put us in this perilous position, but be inspired by how, despite that, we still were able to defeat that threat and be able to rebuild, essentially, a government and a movement to ensure that something like this never happens again in our lifetimes?
Don: Tara, I’ve been taking furious notes here. I have many, many, many more questions, but we both have to go. Thank you for your time, and thank you for being a genius.
Tara: Thank you so much, Don. This is a real pleasure.
Don: Thank you for listening to 12 Geniuses. In our next episode, I interview Benji Backer, President and Founder of the American Conservation Coalition, the largest right-of-center environmental organization in the country. Benji and I discuss how the right and left can come together to build consensus on climate change. If you’re learning from and enjoying the podcast, please share it with others who might find value in it and please consider rating the show on your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening, and thank you for being a genius.