Emotional Intelligence in a Remote Work Setting With Doug Lennick
Leadership expert Doug Lennick joined 12 Geniuses back in Season One to discuss the importance of emotional competence at work. In this episode, Don and Doug meet again to discuss the trends shaping the labor market today. They also talk about the importance of understanding and embracing your employees’ values and how to establish strong relationships with employees who are working remotely.
Doug Lennick has spent his career developing leaders in a variety of industries and exploring how people can make better financial decisions that align with their core values. Doug has authored six books, including “Leveraging Your Financial Intelligence: At the Intersection of Money, Health, and Happiness.” He’s also the co-founder and CEO of think2perform, a leadership development and coaching consultancy.
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Transcript
Don MacPherson:
Hi, this is Don MacPherson, your host of 12 Geniuses. Today, we welcome back my longtime friend and mentor Doug Lennick to the show to discuss the labor market. We also talk about the importance of understanding your employees' values and how to establish strong relationships with employees who are working remotely. This episode of 12 Geniuses is brought to you by the think2perform Research Institute, an organization committed to advancing moral, purposeful and emotionally intelligent leadership.
Doug, welcome back to 12 Geniuses. Let's start out by talking about the labor market. Recently on the show, we had futurist Rebecca Ryan join us. We talked about this shifting dynamic at work where employees now have more power than employers do. I wonder what your take on that assessment is.
Doug Lennick:
It depends a little bit on the employee, and you see this in all kinds of disciplines. You certainly see it in athletics, where they're publicized all the time. Everybody sees who gets to do what, and it seems like the players in professional sports, the superstar players, kind of dictate the game.
I think that's probably true also in business. I don't think the power has shifted to every employee, but I do think that certain employees can wield the power now. They get to work on their terms. They get to work in the office if they want. They get to work out of the office if they want. They get to work anywhere in the world if they want because the technology today allows for us to maintain communications without having to be in the same room. So, those days are gone. I mean, not that they won't ever come back, or not that they won't be back to a certain degree, but I don't think it'll be all or nothing any more.
Don MacPherson:
I understand that the superstar employees, using your analogy there, that they are able to dictate things on their own terms, but you're even seeing line-level workers not coming back, and demanding higher wages and things of that nature. That is a new dynamic. Certainly that didn't exist 18 months ago.
Doug Lennick:
That's true, and I would say that part of that happened in that people were given government checks to not work, and that kind of empowered them a little. And then they started to realize that "I get paid more not to work than I get paid to work." And so then they had to question,, "Why do I work anyway?" I think those kinds of questions are going to be the ones that really determine where employees find themselves going forward.
Don MacPherson:
That's really an interesting point, because you're talking about purpose. “Why do I work?” And if the only purpose for you working is a paycheck, there's something wrong.
Doug Lennick:
Yes, exactly right. In fact, if that's the only reason you were working and you get paid more not to work, then you ought not work. However, at some point that gravy train, for lack of better terms, is going to run out. I think it's going to be interesting to see as people reflect on, "What do I get out of the work that I do?" If it's just a paycheck, that's an empty kind of a job anyway.
But a lot of people, whether they're servers in restaurants, I mean, they take great pleasure, great joy, in bringing joy to their customers. They work to see the family have smiles on their faces. They like to see people enjoy their food and enjoy their time with one another, and not have to concern themselves with serving themselves. They take pleasure in serving others, and for those folks, they've got a reason to work beyond the money.
Don MacPherson:
Back when the pandemic was starting, there seemed to be an incredible reassessment of values, simply because what we used to be able to do, we could no longer do. We were sheltering in place, and for a lot of us, we temporarily lost a lot of our net worth, and maybe some of us lost our jobs. And so we started to reevaluate our values and what was important to us. I just want to get your take on the importance of knowing what your values are and knowing your employees’ values, because I know that's something that you talk about a lot. Has that become more important since the pandemic has started, or has it always been at the same level of importance?
Doug Lennick:
I think it's accentuated because of the pandemic. I think that it was easy to lose sight of our own values. I know I personally got out of alignment during the pandemic. I found myself isolated. I didn't handle the isolation well. I'm one of those guys that actually likes to go to work, so I'm not somebody who likes waking up at work. I don't like going to bed at work. I like going to work and coming home, and I like having those be two different places. Having all of that blurred was not terribly useful. But being in touch with values, I think, became even more important, and getting out of touch with one's own values became easier. And then it was easier to misalign my behaviors with my values, because the values really hadn't changed, but my behaviors had changed, and I got out of alignment.
Getting back in alignment is really critical, and so I think values became even more important, and understanding what other people value, and then understanding how to connect with people. Everybody wants to be respected, and one of the most respectful things one can do for another is understand their values and honor those values. I think that helps create a sense of belonging and closeness, even in a virtual world.
Don MacPherson:
How do you start to have these conversations around "What do you want for yourself?" or "What are your values?" and get honest answers?
Doug Lennick:
Well, one of the things that I would recommend, as it relates to getting in touch with values, is having a dialogue. When somebody says, "I value family, happiness, wisdom, integrity, service, health" — those happen to be mine — ask them what they mean. “When you say you value family, tell me about that. Why did that make the list?” Actually seeking to understand.
One of the mistakes that can be made when discussing values with an employee is we can make the mistake of assuming we know what they mean when they use a word, and they may not mean the same thing. I had a meeting earlier this week, and we actually spent the first, maybe 45 minutes — there were 16 people in the meeting, and the meeting was held outside in order to meet protocol. The values of the 16 people were all posted on posts, of course. What happened is each person went around and looked at the values, and they tried to guess who picked which values. And then we had a discussion about that, and then each person got to get up and speak a little bit about what they chose and which one was most significant to them, or however they cared to talk about it.
One of the women mentioned that she values wealth, and when she described her value of wealth, it wasn't about having money. It was about being able to afford to do things for other people. For her, wealth represented this opportunity to support others, that she could live generously, and she could support people who needed help. Just hearing the word "wealth" could easily misunderstand what that means, unless we take the time to say, "Tell me, why did you pick ‘wealth’?"
Don MacPherson:
I want to direct the conversation towards remote work, because this is something that you've been doing for decades now. You have dozens of employees around the country, and I know you just met with them in person for the first time in a long time last month, but this is something you're accustomed to. Even when you were at American Express, you had 17,000 people all around the country rolling up to you, so you're comfortable with this. But for a lot of leaders, this is something new — managing and leading remote employees. What advice do you have for people who are leading remotely? Because we're talking about, "What do you want for yourself?" and values and real intimate types of conversations. I, personally, am more comfortable having these conversations in person, but that's not the reality for a lot of people right now. What advice do you have?
Doug Lennick:
You need to talk to the camera, because the people watching you, they see when you're talking to the camera, you're talking to them. When you're talking to the monitor, you're not talking to them. A lot of times what's happening is, when we're doing virtual meetings, we have maybe 10, 12, 15 people on the screen, and so we're glancing around at the people, and that is not very intimate. You have to be willing to actually make love to the camera. You've got to be willing to be intimate, be vulnerable, just as if you were there in person. I've, over the years, got reasonably good at that, so when I was going through my little training yesterday in preparation for my own remarks at our upcoming conference, the guy was saying, "Kudos." He says, "Hey, you seem to just know how to do this." I said, "Well, that's nice of you to say, but I practiced a lot.”
Don MacPherson:
What's interesting about that is, when we're on these Zoom calls, looking at the camera, you don't see how people are reacting. Generally, when we're looking at the monitor, we want to see how people are reacting to our message, but that's not intimate. That's not eye contact. You are sacrificing the eye contact from the viewers or from the listeners so they can have eye contact from you.
Doug Lennick:
Correct.
Don MacPherson:
What other advice do you have for establishing this emotional connection?
Doug Lennick:
In fact, I was reviewing this with a speech coach yesterday. How I think about this is, when I am preparing for a presentation, regardless of how I'm delivering it, So if it's in person, if it's on a Zoom or a Microsoft Team or whatever, if it's a webinar, if it's a podcast, whatever it is, I ask myself before I am presenting a series of questions, and the questions are the following:
No. 1, the people I am speaking with, how do I want them to feel emotionally as a result of hearing from me? How do I want them to feel, and what do I want them to think? And then, what, if anything, do I want them to do? And then I ask myself, "Doug, what do you have to think, and what do you have to do, regardless of how you feel, to help them experience what it is you want them to experience?" And that preparation is very helpful. Sometimes, I am very explicit. I will actually open my remarks by saying, "Here's what I'd like you to think as a result of what I'm sharing with you today."
I will probably open the conference, and then I will close the conference, and I will say, "Yesterday, when I opened the conference, I shared with you that we had an outstanding program planned, and that I wanted you to think exactly that, that this is going to be a great program. I asked you that yesterday, and I wanted you to feel engaged. I wanted you to feel grateful for participating in this. I wanted you to feel appreciated. I wanted you to feel optimistic, and I wanted you to feel confident." And I said, "What I'd like you to do when you leave is be able to take some of what you heard, some of what you learned, and immediately put it to work, so that you're not waiting for a year to go by or any period of time. You're actually using it."
"Well, here we are today. This is now the end of the conference, and what I want you to consider is, consider assessing the conference with me, because that's what I'm going to do right now. I'm going to share with you my observations of what I heard from the various presenters and from various participants' conversations that I had in the hallways, observations of the audience, while I participated as an observer. I want to share with you what I took away. And what I hope happens is along with me, you are assessing this, and you are seeing there is a real opportunity for me, me personally, you personally, to actually do something. So that this is not just a feel-good. This is a do-good." And that's what I'm hoping happens.
Don MacPherson:
Any other final thoughts?
Doug Lennick:
No, I have enjoyed doing this. I wish our listeners well, and I encourage everybody to go ahead and look inside themselves. I'd like to do it with me and challenge myself to make today a good day and to make a positive difference today.
Don MacPherson:
Well, I always love having conversations with you. Thank you again for sitting here with me and sharing your wisdom, and thank you again for being a genius.
Doug Lennick:
Well, I'm glad you called me that so that I can say, "Somebody called me a genius." Thank you, sir.
Don MacPherson:
Thanks for listening to 12 Geniuses. During next week's interview, John Kriesel revisits the show. In Season One, John shared his experience as a survivor of a devastating roadside bomb that earned him a Purple Heart during the Iraq war. This time, John reflects back 20 years to the attacks of September 11th and the events that brought him to fight for his country a few years later. John's episode will be released Sept. 7, 2021. Thanks for listening and thank you for being a genius.